I spoke with Annie Johnson, this year’s homebrewer of the year, whose take on the matter is that many people of color simply don’t have access to craft beer, and that without access, there isn’t going to be interest.
“If you think about most urban cities, and you have a minority population that belong to a certain area of town, we all know it… If you go to the little corner mart, there is no craft beer. It’s Bud, Bud Light. Nothing is marketed to them except for those. They’re the only ones that are marketing to that particular crowd. And if you’re not exposed to it, you’re not going to be interested in it.”Not wanting to leave Atlanta out of the conversation, I also invited Ale Sharpton and Lenox Mercedes to weigh in on the subject. Though neither Ale or Lenox had spoken to each other or read Annie’s interview at the time I spoke with them, they had similar thoughts on the matter.
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Ale Sharpton (a.k.a. Dennis Malcolm Byron, Jr.) a prominent Atlanta beer blogger and web host who is regularly asked to contribute to Thrillist as an Atlanta beer expert (and who also writes for Beer Connoisseur, HipHopWired.com, The Atlanta Voice, Jet, J'Adore, and others) agreed that lack of exposure to craft beer was a problem, but the issue is also part of a larger historical context:
“I think [exposure] is a big part of it. There was also a period of disconnection when beer was discovered in Egypt and the Sumerian civilizations, to Europe. When it was brewed eventually in the U.S., German and English immigrants played more of a role than others. That has a lot to do with it as well. Eventually, the microbrewery movement was simply dominated by whites. Things are turning around slowly.”Ale Sharpton sees his work as a beer blogger, in part, as a form of activism:
“What I realized was that particularly African Americans were not regularly informed through avenues directly catering to them via magazines, websites, and other sources. Part of my goal of developing the Ale Sharpton brand was to help [people of color] realize that there is an awesome, exciting, and burgeoning world of craft beers to enjoy. [...]
I always try to promote festivals as much as possible, because they are the ultimate tasting vehicles for hundreds of different ales and lagers. [...] I try to help open more doors for everyone. Hopefully, the only white and black issues in the craft beer world will solely concern things like witbiers and stouts. It's a slow movement, but we are getting there one sip at a time.”When asked to assess the current level of diversity in the craft beer circles he travels through for work, Ale says the numbers don’t lie:
“I have yet to walk into a black-owned brewery, but I have met a number of black brewers throughout my travels, including Garrett Oliver. I also think there have been issues with getting funding to start breweries. I have met a lot of aspiring black and Latino brewers who want their own breweries, but getting the funding has been the biggest obstacle. It is simply a reality that spreads beyond the beer world.
Hopefully one day race will be a non-issue, but the numbers currently don't lie. There is still not a balance. I think exposing the beautiful characteristics of beer to everyone is a step in the right direction. Perhaps breweries can start having minority brewing programs and I would like to help take part in that. Golf, tennis, and auto racing have similar programs. Why not beer?”Ale Sharpton says brewpubs, bars, and eateries also bear some responsibility:
“One other point I would like to make: Black-dominated eateries, bars, clubs and other public establishments, for the majority, have terrible, extremely limited beer selections that are often monopolized by macrobreweries. I thrive on consulting here as well. Again, it is all about exposure and providing opportunities to taste different styles. This will lead to other open doors in the brewing world.”
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“Part of the reason the interest level is not as high is because Black and Latino people are so brand loyal that we’ve been drinking the same stuff for like 50 years. It’s Budweiser, Heineken, Guinness, Corona. And that’s pretty much the top four in terms of urban and Latino. You have a few others, here and there, but primarily that’s what we drink.”Lenox went on to say that he hopes he and his company can be players in bringing craft beer to overlooked communities:
“There is not enough engagement going on. Craft beer doesn’t market to Black and Latino, at all. So, that’s why I exist. I saw an opportunity to say, OK, the stuff is great. We just need a conversation started around it in an atmosphere that’s comfortable and we will support those brands as well. [...]
I think [craft beer] represents a lot of good things about America, about real people in the world, that just are like… don’t bother us with wars, and all that stuff. Just do what you do and have a good time.” [...]
My whole stance is, craft beer is leaving money on the table by not marketing out.”His reasons for creating multi-cultural craft beer conversations extend beyond mere recognition of an open market.
“Being from NY… I’m Latin. My father’s Dominican. My mom is from Ecuador. And I grew up in a black neighborhood, surrounded by an Italian neighborhood, surrounded by a Jewish neighborhood, surrounded by a Puerto Rican neighborhood… So, we hung out with everybody. Indian friends. Asian friends. Everybody. It’s like, if everybody can’t come, I’m not going.
When you come to Atlanta, there is this black/white/Mexican thing. That’s how they hang out. So, I felt that my company was needed, my festival was needed, in a macro sense. When American is fumbling through some big issues—housing crisis, unemployment, wars constantly—we need more reasons to come together than to get apart.
And if we can come around music and beer, it’s easy. Everybody relaxes.”Although participation at this year’s HGHH event (which also had a Cinco de Mayo theme) was lower than expected, Lenox has plans to improve for future events, including altering his price structure and avoiding the theme.
“I found out, that Cinco [de Mayo] is offensive to Mexicans. Celebrating Cinco de Mayo is offensive to them. And being Latino, I was hurt. I didn’t want to offend anyone. I didn’t know that until I talked to Mexican people and they were like ‘You know we don’t celebrate that, right? Yeah, that’s totally American shit, and it’s like a spoof almost.’ So I felt bad. That’s my last Cinco de Mayo. Never again. Never, ever again. [...]
I really thought I had the formula for 700 people to attend. And I just needed some more support on the promotion. And then you’ve got stuff like ticket price. Because Black and Latino [are] new to craft beer, they’re also new to the beer festival format. So they’re not just ready to pay $40-$50 for a festival ticket, even though I know my festival is worth that.”Despite not being native to Atlanta, Lenox says he’s not going anywhere, and is committed to seeing his company, and his city, continue to grow and diversify.
“I’ve been here ten years now, and I feel like I’m part of Atlanta, especially working at Morehouse and knowing a lot of natives. I’m invested in seeing it grow. I’m not leaving. I think this is it. My dad is here… [...] Yes, there are some areas that are unsafe, for everybody! And the West End is rough around the edges, but there are a lot of great places to go. So, now my focus is to find those places that have craft beer, respectable craft beer, and hip hop.”Toward the end of our chat, Lenox was more forthcoming:
“To me, I’ll be honest with you. I’m really tired of the race discussion. Our packaging on earth is only that. You have to be in a certain spiritual place to be able to elevate above your race and even your gender. You’re a human being. These things such as race, you really have to evolve past that. I can sit down with anybody [and] I’m going to express myself from the heart.”
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In parting, I’d like to extend my deepest thanks to Annie, Ale, and Lenox for sharing their thoughts and for being so open about their own experiences within the craft beer culture. It’s conversations like these that give me hope, not only for the future of craft beer, but for the future of the culture at large.
Although I do enjoy unwrapping a pretty package, it’s the inside that keeps my interest. So whether we’re talking about beer or about people (who are each a unique brew of their own sort), I couldn’t agree more. Slow as it may be, craft beer’s evolution is going to need to keep pace with its growing demographic (both inside and out) if it's to maintain their grip on its minimal market share.
We invite you to comment and contribute your thoughts on this topic here, on Facebook, and on Twitter. The full transcript of my interview with Lenox, which covers a wide range of topics--including public transit, transcending ideas of gender and race, and the right to freedom of speech--can be found after the jump.
Transcript of interview with Lenox Mercedes:
HeyBrewtiful: So, basically the article is asking why are there not more people of color involved in craft beer and I wanted some other opinions. Obviously, I’m not qualified to comment […].
Lenox: I think first and foremost the interest level in beer is just not as high. Part of the reason the interest level is not as high is because Black and Latino people are so brand loyal, that we’ve been drinking the same stuff for like 50 years. It’s Budweiser, Heineken, Guinness, Corona. And that’s pretty much the top four in terms of urban and Latino. You have a few others, here and there, but primarily that’s what we drink.
I think, and that’s the whole reason I exist, there is not enough engagement going on. Craft beer doesn’t market to Black and Latino, at all. So, that’s why I exist. And I saw an opportunity to say, OK, the stuff is great we just need a conversation started around it in an atmosphere that’s comfortable and we will support those brands as well.
I think it’s tough, that question. It’s a great headline because it’s a tough question. So, why are there… who knows? All white people aren’t into craft beer either. I think it’s just a matter of education and connecting, and having a conversation with people. And just tasting and sampling and facilitating a good time.
Because at the end of the day craft beer is about having fun, enjoying yourself, and saying screw the man. You know what I mean? Just doing your thing. I think it represents a lot of good things about America, about real people in the world, that just are like… don’t bother us with wars, and all that stuff. Just do what you do and have a good time.
HeyBrewtiful: Yeah, so I talked to Annie Johnson. She had the opinion that it was a lack of exposure on both ends. […] I thought it was interesting because, and I was talking to Ale Sharpton as well, that you all basically had the same opinion. That it was not really a matter of being excluded necessarily, just a lack of exposure. Not really having opportunities where there would be some kind of entry point. Like, “Where would I taste this [and] why would I taste this,” kinds of questions.
Lenox: It’s a loaded question. It’s like saying why aren’t there more white people in hip-hop? OK, there’s some. And culturally it’s Black people music […] but it’s so good that it overlaps cultures. [Craft beer is] so good, that everybody wants to partake in it. Is there ever going to be 60/40 black breweries? I doubt it. But we can consume and enjoy.
And there’s breweries all over NY now. And I’m excited to see Harlem Brewing, Dykeman Brewing, Bronx Brewery, Brooklyn—everybody already knows. And Dykman (http://dyckmanbeerco.com/), is owned by a Latin man that I’ve talked to a couple of times. So, it’s popping up!
My whole stance is, craft beer is leaving money on the table by not marketing out.
HeyBrewtiful: It seems that way, from my point of view. If you think about it they’re leaving the female market out as well. There’s all this sexist labeling. Am I not going to drink the beer? Unlikely—if it’s good. I’ll drink it probably regardless of the labeling. But they’re not really marketing to me.
Lenox: So, what about Arrogant Bastard? Ha!
HB: I don’t know. Honestly, I’m not really that affected or offended by [it]. Really, if I wanted something to be offended by, I could find it. I just don’t have the time or energy. Is it good beer? Ultimately, I mean… would it be nice if they didn’t do that? I guess. But everybody has their own point of view.
I think, and that’s the whole reason I exist, there is not enough engagement going on. Craft beer doesn’t market to Black and Latino, at all. So, that’s why I exist. And I saw an opportunity to say, OK, the stuff is great we just need a conversation started around it in an atmosphere that’s comfortable and we will support those brands as well.
I think it’s tough, that question. It’s a great headline because it’s a tough question. So, why are there… who knows? All white people aren’t into craft beer either. I think it’s just a matter of education and connecting, and having a conversation with people. And just tasting and sampling and facilitating a good time.
Because at the end of the day craft beer is about having fun, enjoying yourself, and saying screw the man. You know what I mean? Just doing your thing. I think it represents a lot of good things about America, about real people in the world, that just are like… don’t bother us with wars, and all that stuff. Just do what you do and have a good time.
HeyBrewtiful: Yeah, so I talked to Annie Johnson. She had the opinion that it was a lack of exposure on both ends. […] I thought it was interesting because, and I was talking to Ale Sharpton as well, that you all basically had the same opinion. That it was not really a matter of being excluded necessarily, just a lack of exposure. Not really having opportunities where there would be some kind of entry point. Like, “Where would I taste this [and] why would I taste this,” kinds of questions.
Lenox: It’s a loaded question. It’s like saying why aren’t there more white people in hip-hop? OK, there’s some. And culturally it’s Black people music […] but it’s so good that it overlaps cultures. [Craft beer is] so good, that everybody wants to partake in it. Is there ever going to be 60/40 black breweries? I doubt it. But we can consume and enjoy.
And there’s breweries all over NY now. And I’m excited to see Harlem Brewing, Dykeman Brewing, Bronx Brewery, Brooklyn—everybody already knows. And Dykman (http://dyckmanbeerco.com/), is owned by a Latin man that I’ve talked to a couple of times. So, it’s popping up!
My whole stance is, craft beer is leaving money on the table by not marketing out.
HeyBrewtiful: It seems that way, from my point of view. If you think about it they’re leaving the female market out as well. There’s all this sexist labeling. Am I not going to drink the beer? Unlikely—if it’s good. I’ll drink it probably regardless of the labeling. But they’re not really marketing to me.
Lenox: So, what about Arrogant Bastard? Ha!
HB: I don’t know. Honestly, I’m not really that affected or offended by [it]. Really, if I wanted something to be offended by, I could find it. I just don’t have the time or energy. Is it good beer? Ultimately, I mean… would it be nice if they didn’t do that? I guess. But everybody has their own point of view.
Lenox: It’s their thing. But that’s the beauty of it at the same time. Could we all stand to be respectful? Yes! Are you free to go and say whatever you the hell you want? Yes. And that’s the price we pay for living in America. Anybody can get up at any moment and say whatever the hell they want and we have to be like, that’s your right. Which, I don’t have to like it. I don’t have to support it. I don’t have to buy that shit.
[pause for drink orders, discussion with waitress]
[pause for drink orders, discussion with waitress]
HB: When my husband and I came down to Atlanta for High Gravity Hip Hop, even though we were in the minority racially, we didn’t feel like we were out of place.
Lenox: Being from NY… I’m Latin. My father’s Dominican, my mom is from Ecuador. And I grew up in a black neighborhood, surrounded by an Italian neighborhood, surrounded by a Jewish neighborhood, surrounded by a Puerto Rican… So, we hung out with everybody. Indian friends. Asian friends. Everybody. It’s like, if everybody can’t come, I’m not going.
When you come to Atlanta, there is this black/white/Mexican thing. That’s how they hang out. So, I felt that my company was needed, my festival was needed, in a macro sense. When American is fumbling through some big issues—housing crisis, unemployment, wars constantly—we need more reasons to come together than to get apart.
And if we can come around music and beer, it’s easy. Everybody relaxes.
HB: It was awesome. From the moment that you started explaining, over those emails you sent out, about your reasons for doing what you were doing. I was in.
Lenox: You read those? Thank you. You never know who reads those things. To me, I’ll be honest with you. I’m really tired of the race discussion. Our packaging on earth, is only that.
HB: I think that’s part of the reason that people are hesitant to discuss it, because it really is a tired conversation. It’s hard to simultaneously say, this is still important and worth talking about… but we’re really beyond this. Isn’t this boring by now?
Lenox: You have to be in a certain spiritual place to be able to elevate above your race and even your gender. You’re a human being. These things such as race, you really have to evolve past that. I can sit down with anybody [and] I’m going to express myself from the heart.
We really should have had a whole lot more people there, but the rain, and some people have their opinion about it being Sunday… But I found out, that Cinco [de Mayo] is offensive to Mexicans. Celebrating Cinco de Mayo, is offensive to them. And being Latino, I was hurt. I didn’t’ want to offend anyone. I didn’t know that until I talked to Mexican people and they were like “You know we don’t celebrate that, right? Yeah, that’s totally American shit, and it’s like a spoof almost.” So I felt bad. That’s my last Cinco de Mayo. Never again. Never, ever again.
HB: It was still a good time, and I loved the Latin overlap with hip-hop. That band was awesome. I could listen to them all day.
L: We’re actually working with them to do something more regular. I love that they’ll take soul songs and turn them into salsa.
HB: If you think about it, even though people are going to be offended by stuff. You can’t control that. Somebody’s going to be offended by something somewhere.
L: Someone’s offended that we’re doing an interview right now!
HB: That doesn’t mean you can’t make it what you want it to be for you. Which is kind of what I felt like you did. It was kind of counter-culture to the typical Cinco de Mayo party you would experience. There was respect for community, which is the opposite. So I was like, where is everybody?
L: I really thought I had the formula for 700 people to attend. And I just needed some more support on the promotion. And then you’ve got stuff like ticket price. Because Black and Latino [are] new to craft beer, they’re also new to the beer festival format. So they’re not just ready to pay $40-$50 for a festival ticket, even though I know my festival is worth that.
HB: I already knew there was this disconnect between the city and the perimeter... People who are in the city don’t come outside the city. They don’t travel. We had a friend live in the city, for years after we moved [to Kennesaw], and he never came to visit. I understand. I do. I get it. But I also think it’s unconscionable, the lack of transportation, out and into those areas that would facilitate an overlap of those communities which is really necessary. And I was like, if I could take a train into the festival, and then back again, I would be coming into the city all the time!
L: I’m friends with a lot of Atlanta natives. They have a lot of issues. Like, they’re seriously focused on Atlanta becoming an international city. Well, public transportation, number one. What’s up? People can’t get to each other, safely.
Other things like the beltline coming, but that’s a fifteen-year project. I heard when they first were doing the MARTA thing that a lot of the OTP people in those [outlying] communities were like…. “We’re good.” They don’t even want a lot of buses running.
I’ve been here ten years now, and I feel like I’m part of Atlanta, especially working at Morehouse and knowing a lot of natives. I’m invested in seeing it grow. I’m not leaving. I think this is it. My dad is here… But when I worked at Morehouse, I lived on campus. So I lived in the West End for the last five years, and I wouldn’t go outside of the West End. So, I get it.
It’s really cookie cutter. Whatever it is, you name it—it’s strip malls, Blockbusters, Olive garden. It’s Walmart, Waffle House. You can’t really find a Waffle House in the city. There’s like two or three. Yes, there are some areas that are unsafe, for everybody! And the West End is rough around the edges, but there are a lot of great places to go. So, now my focus is to find those places that have craft beer, respectable craft beer, and hip hop.
Places like Graveyard [and] Republic. They’re starting to get really popular because it’s like my festival on the regular. So I try to find places like that now.
[end transcript]
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